First, I am going to start by saying that anyone who guides flyfisherman for a living is under paid.
Some coworkers flew in from NC to do a week long meeting. A couple of them are “experienced” fly fisherman and asked myself and a buddy to take them fishing yesterday. We aimed for low tide reds. Unfortunately, their flight was delayed, so we lost two good hours of fishing- but we got on the water right at dead low and had 3 hours before dark.
I have never met the coworker/ angler I had (I knew the other one). He said all the right things. Got him on the bow and we ran 10 minutes to our destination. Within 10 minutes of pushing, we found our first school of fish - 6 nice reds working the bank between two oyster bars. Got him in position for a 45 foot cast and quickly learned his fly casting was limited to mountain streams with a 5 wt.
After many tangles around the rod, smacking himself, and catching the side of the boat… I slid him within 20 feet of the fish so he could “flop” the fly at them.
Eventually, the school wised up and busted out- but had tons of shots that never materialized into eats.
We found a second and then a third school all to the same effect.
We worked about a mile of creek and then came to a huge bay at the back that holds about 6 inches of water over the softest puff mud at dead low. We saw two absolute monster reds belly crawling in that bay- One was so large I thought it had to be a shark at first. We slid up on one but an errant cast caused it to retreat off the flat.
My buddy and his angler did manage to scrape out one on fly. My angler never stayed pinned up (he did hook two) so we came home with the skunk.
My question to you guides (or anyone else who has taken newer fly guys)… if the angler’s casting is in the “poor” range- is it worth letting them flail in the front or something else.
At one point, I cast into the school for him and handed him the rod for him to work it back in- I only did it once though as I needed to control the boat from the platform to keep us in position.
I put him in one spot and had him cast and tried to get him to feed line out while we backed up so we could have the fly in place- but it didn’t work and I was not sure if it was worth the effort (and the bruising to his pride).
I have learned to stop at spot with folks I haven’t seen cast, have them get up front w the rod, the excuse is I’m going to get the contract up front on the clock position, and where not to cast so I don’t suffer battle injuries. Then I have them cast at medium and long range, I normally give them a cross wind into their cast or a headwind. That normally tells me what I’m working with. I have actually gone back to put the fly rod impaired gear on the boat for the guest…
I hear ya- Great question to ask. This trip was actually orchestrated more by my buddy than me…
But I spent the first 20 minutes “coaching” the angler to NOT let go of the fly line with his left hand.
And I don’t mean on the hero last forward cast. I mean- right after starting his first forward cast.
Also- please note- I am genuinely interested in what you do as a guide or rec angler and suddenly your bow has someone limited in ability but you have fish to feed.
Primarily with fly, but I am sure spin and conventional gear applies as well.
What tricks am I missing to get the to the finish line vs drawing up with a blank.
I find asking he right questions doesn’t mean JS. Most folks will “tell you they can cast”, so basically I skip that part and have them “show me your skills”. If I guy can cast it’s pretty obvious in about three tries. If they can’t that’s extremely obvious as well. I took a very close friend on a trip late June, freshwater fly guy, couldn’t keep that left hand on the line at all, lifted the rod every time, lost a huge snook when it struck as he fly landed, he was trying to find the fly line he let loose on the forward cast, finally got a hold of it and I said btw you are attached to a big ol’ snook down in the mangrove so you’ll probably get broken off when you start striping, lol. Sure enough the fish got PO’d and broke him off quickly.
Depends on what their goal is. I’m never going to take someone in early because it’s obvious they can’t get it done. I’m going to work all day to help make them better because that’s my job. It’s also a great opportunity for me to check out some new stuff or stuff I haven’t worked in a while. Because well, if they’re not gonna get it done I might as well go scout.
The fishing is a small part of why people book with me. Most in that case can tell after a few shots that they bit off more than they could chew. But we can still have a good day after they come to terms with that. There’s a balance of putting them in a place where they can be successful and showing them shots they need to be able to hit for next time. If you know you’re fishery well enough, there’s (weather permitting) places where you can hang them out of the wind in a nice place to practice where they might also catch something. Take them there and practice. Is it what I wanted to do? Nope. But that’s the gig.
P.S. I’ve never had anyone tell me they’re a good angler before the day that ended up actually being a good angler. The sticks never mention anything about their fishing ability and it’s always a real nice surprise on the first shot of the day.
Surprisingly this is all I have done this past year. Taking mountain/pond fly guys to the coast. After a few trips it became obvious what I needed to do, put on a casting clinic. This helped some but that was just opening the door for them. They still need to walk through it and practice. Some have, some haven’t. I normally start my day in a quiet spot on the water and let the guys warm up and get accustomed to the environment and boat. Unfortunately this is also when fish are most active. So if someone is really having a hard time, they are missing shots at the easy fish as well. I give out tips and techniques throughout the day but I can’t(won’t) put on a clinic on the boat. It’s time to fish and what you brought casting wise is what you got. It’s definitely a humbling experience for these guys. The self motivated ones go home, research, buy new gear, and practice. The others go back to fishing streams in the mountains. Fly fishing the salt isn’t for everyone, but I’m giving them the bow time to make that choice for themselves.
Not a guide but I had a family friend that talked up his fishing adventures (including fly fishing adventures and Orvis clinics) and kept asking me to take him fishing. I finally agreed and he met me at the ramp one morning and we started talking about the plan. When I showed him the fly that had been working he stammered, “yeah, I can’t throw a fly very well”. I told him that we could try it for a while and if he felt more comfortable, I had a baitcaster on board that he could use. “Yeah, I’ve never thrown a baitcaster before.” He ended up learning how to use a baitcaster that morning and ended up with 7 reds. That’s more of a comment on how willing the fish were that day than any other factor.
I do what @Loogie says. If I am guiding someone, or I am with a new guide.
Before even casting to a fish, I dial in the clock and distance. I ask every person to point the rod at the fish before they cast so I am sure they are looking at the same thing I am.
Asking if they can cast or can haul is relative. People can think they can cast. Or that 15 knot wind gives them the yips and they blow their cast.
Dial it in first, that gives a known distance of where you need to put the boat. But it also gives an opportunity to give them advice on their cast before casting to a fish.
The reason I find this important is that giving advice while fish are around can cause the person to not focus on either the cast or fish at 100%. The brain gets overloaded - they are excited and they are trying their best. But they may not realize that they are not doing in the moment. And when they miss, they feel defeated.
One practice I do when someone blows a shot is to lead with everything they did right first. I emphasize what is good and to build from, and next time let’s make this little change.
But there are times when nothing was good and I’ll just flatly tell them they blew it, or they need to step down and reset for a bit.
I think a pre-fishing briefing is worthwhile. I’ve only done one guided trip and that was recently and before any casts were made the guide went over the ground rules and put me up on the bow and said strip some line out and make a few casts. He wanted to see what he was working with. I had been practicing so he said yup I can work with that. I think seeing what you are working with before fish are in front of you is important. Maybe you can give a few tips and hopefully its enough be workable. That said, setting expectations early and realistically would be important for everyone involved.
If you’ve never cast with wind before it can be quite humbling. Casting with no breeze is easy peasy but once that wind kicks up its a whole other game and you go from hero to zero in a jiffy. I know my first time going out in the wild after lots of practice on the lawn I got my ass handed to me and it was back to the drawing board. I thought I was doing good, but wasn’t good enough. Asking someone to figure that out on the fly and under the gun is a tall order…
Guiding is the happiest way to stay a half step above the poverty line.
I could tell many stories of anglers showing up for a saltwater trip having never held a fly rod before.
in all my pre-trip communication I always reference being comfortable with a 40ft double haul cast.
When we arrive to our fist zone, before we start fishing I always go over casting, clock system, how to work the fly, general plan and what we are looking for.
This is a good time to do some casting tune up/lessons. That being said you have to get in there and play ball to improve. No one steps up on the bow to intentionally strike out.
In the moment don’t give excessive feedback and keep calm tone. Afterwards break down what happened, what can be done different and make a few practice shots to recreate the scenario.
Above was referenced to just go scouting when you know your angler can’t get it done. I could not disagree more. This means if they can only cast 15ft you are going to work your ass off to get as many shots inside 15ft as possible.
I always want to catch fish but more than that when you get off my boat I want you to be a better angler than when you stepped on.
I have multiple clients that had never fished saltwater and struggled to make a 15ft cast when we first started fishing. Through time and working together I now have them picking out and getting fish at distance.
I didn’t say I gave up on the client and “just go scouting.” I said it’s a good opportunity for me to work something I haven’t been to in a while or something new. Big difference.
I said in the sentence before that I’m not going to stop working to make them a better angler during their day. I can make good use of my time for future trips and also try to set them up for success.
I can count on 1 hand how many fish have eaten after being cast to at 15 feet from my boat in 5 years of guiding. I work in a technical, high pressure, clean water fishery. If the client can’t cast before 15 feet then we likely aren’t even casting to most of the fish I’ll see in a day. I have a better shot at getting them to fish better than I do finding that kind where I work.
Unless you ha e fished with the person before and know their abilities, aleays bring a spinning rig. Learned that the hard way, even though im not a paid guide.
Oh boy, been there on both ends of that equation, as a beginning fly angler about fifty years ago… and as a guide for a lot of years. As an angler, my first jack crevalle came in a school of 2-3 lb jacks at Smith Shoal light out of Key West. I wasn’t with a guide - just another club angler on a club outing and that “school of jacks” - was at least an acre or two of them- with medium sized blacktips blowing them up all around us… My cast was so bad that the line barely made it out of the skiff and lay behind me on the backcast. While I was untangling, a jack struck the motion-less fly and I was hooked up… Oh boy…
Years later when I took up guiding and learned how little I knew… the best advice I was ever given - was to always keep at least one spinning rod on my skiff - in case… I’ve had more than one party claim to want to fish fly, then wave the rod once or twice, set it down and say -now let’s go catch some fish.. so, unless I know my anglers, maybe more than one spinning rod on board…
Yes, it’s a good idea to go over a thing or two at your first stop
-and very handy if that first spot is the kind of place where the fish will attack anything they see (and at close quarters to boot…). The clouser minnow has been a lifesaver with beginners on board. Once you’ve found that your angler can’t double haul - that charter is no place to be learning it.. Instead I’ve found that the “water haul” is a great alternative for someone who can’t cast 30 feet. I won’t try to explain it here but with the water haul and a bit of patience you really can have a beginner casting out to fifty, sixty feet - it just takes a few more casting strokes. Not very successful when sight casting at moving fish - but will work for stationary or very slow moving fish. Actually hooking a fish with a fly rod in the salt (as opposed to freshwater) can be problematic as well and no beginner starts out knowing any of this. I’ve found that instead of talking them through the strip strike - actually having them do a bit of strip striking -while their line is in my hand next to my leg… does get them at least trying to do it properly. On big tarpon - it’s everything… All I do is allow the line to slide through my fingers with no tension - then at random grab that line and force them to strip strike -then actually show them what’s needed to clear that line with a big fish on the other end…
Above all try to never show the slightest frustration with a beginning angler. They want to learn - it’s your job to explain and teach them how - if they’re willing to learn. Every now and then you’ll run into someone that’s not willing to learn - and that will be a very long day… but it goes with the territory I’m afraid.
More to say about this whole topic - but you can bet that many a young guide - found some other way to make a buck when their frustration at the actual day to day routine got to be too much… Hope this helps
Newer anglers with beginner skills take a bit of patience. You have to adjust to their skill levels. Sometimes you have to make adjustments to their expectations. I usually have one or two spots that hold fish year round, and it’s great to get some numbers on the board for good anglers, and provides numerous opportunities for beginners. You can not rush them, or scold them. It only makes things worse for an already stressed out person. Pole slower, speak calmly, provide the most opportunities you can. When it happens for them, it gives a beginner a large feeling of accomplishment. It is to be celebrated.
