The reason I like a football to practice is two fold:
Yard lines that mark distance. I place shoes at 30, 45 and 60 feet - then I’ll step back 5 yards and the shoes are at 45, 60, 75. That is great for practicing range and accuracy.
But even better - the straight painted lines on the field. This was extremely helpful for me to develop my double haul, specifically laying out a perfectly straight back cast. This meant performing a back cast and letting it lay out like targeting a fish. Dialing that in, and getting the line to lay straight each time made my forward cast SO much easier. And it made where my back cast is nearly as good as my forward cast - so I opened up the other side of the clock from 1 to 5. That right there doubled my chances of targeting fish - they don’t always show up at 9 to 12.
Occaisionally this happens to me as well. For me it happens when I turn my hand to the outside on the cast, not a curve cast but at the end of the cast turning my hand to the right (when casting right handed). May not apply to your situation. I’m not breaking my wrist but turning it a bit sideways.
Because of this topic I am going to Spend a bit more time analyzing my cast. Nothing wrong with improving it. Reading other posts Im pretty sure I can improve. Thats what makes this site so good. I notice a big difference from MS. More of a family here. A microskiff and fly fishing family and too conventional. And staying within these topics lets it work. Thanks everyone!
I make a lot of my new clients fish out of a bucket for the majority of their tarpon day. Keeping the fly line in a controlled space just helps newbies take better advantage of shots.
There is a learning curve to where you should place the bucket. I like for it to be right off my hip under my hand that I strip with. However, the best way (my opinion) to fish a bucket is to only use it when you’re sight fishing. The bucket is only there to hold your line in a controlled space while you are waiting on the shot. After you present the fly I want you to fish the fish and not the bucket. It doesn’t exist while you’re actually fishing. After the shot is over then it’s time to re-organize fly line back into the bucket so you’re ready for the next one.
It’s important to note that you shouldn’t really be moving around the skiff. Let the guide do that for you (or if you’re solo you should learn how to position your boat better or just have a good backcast). I have a couple of guys who like to shift their feet and turn their hips and whatever else to fish. If you let me do that then the fly line is still just off your hip in a controlled space. When you start turning and shifting and whatever else it kind of defeats the purpose of the bucket. You’ll find that the fly line begins not shooting well, still tangling on your feet, rod, casting platform, and everything else fly line likes to catch in between you and the fish.
The other thing is to make sure you’re deliberately putting the line in the bucket from the reel. The bottom of the fly line should always be at the bottom of the bucket. If you lazily coil your line into the bucket then it will give you problems. Always start with the line closest to the reel and strip it neatly back into the bucket in between shots.
Mav, you should never let go of the line in a fishing situation (distance casting competition maybe yes) because sometimes you need to control the fly and move it immediately. When I practice I visualize a fish out there that I’m casting to, and if that’s the case I know I need to get the fly moving to start moving it into position immediately if it’s a poon.
That is good you are not breaking at the wrist and can notice that. That is opening the wrist, which can be more easily corrected than breaking at the wrist.
Opening the wrist has two negative affects on the cast:
The spine is the stiffest part of the rod. It is on the top of the rod, opposite the eyelets. By turning the rod sideways with opening the wrist, the side of the rod is carrying the load, not the spine. This reduces energy transfer and makes the cast less effective.
It will can cause the line on the forward cast to curve when landed. The reason is the twisting of the rod hand during the cast - the line is not following a straight path in the air.
To correct this, work on laying out perfect straight back casts on the grass.
When doing this, keep the thumb pointed at where you want the fly to land. The end of the fly line follows the tip of the thumb. This is not emphasized enough in casting - it’s all in the thumb.
You’l start to notice any issues with the backcast pretty quickly by doing this. And once the backcast lays out nice a flat, pick it up, like a water load, and let a forward cast go without any false cast. Lay that out straight, then pick up and lay out a back cast without any false cast. You won’t be able to do this with alot of line, and you may have to strip some back, but that isn’t needed. When these two lay out straight, and then are put together, the cast is pretty solid.
The above is how I teach people to double haul as well. But only after they have that glued together. When the person feels the line tug away from their line hand when doing this, it’s time for the haul.
The above can be done with a practice rod with yarn as well.
@formula1 - thanks for the tip. I’ve got a terrible habit of dropping that line on the forward cast and have been working on it with some, but very little, progress. I’m a terrible student and I hardly ever listen to myself.
@coconutgroves - I think you are giving me too much credit - I’m probably breaking my wrist, but the “thumb” thing is spot on. Basically what’s happened to me is that, after about 10-15 years of heavy, disciplined fly-casting when I was younger and my brain was less ossified, I took a 15 year hiatus where I barely fly cast at all. Last year’s Belize trip re-lit a fire under me, and now I’m heavy back into using the fly, but having leaped back into it, I’ve lost a lot of my discipline and aquired some really bad habits that my ossified brain is struggling to break.
I can cast really far and I can cast really accurately. I just do it incredibly inconsistently and rarely when it matters most.
I think the hardest part about being half a century old is realizing how little your brain can adjust and absorb new information. I hear things, I see things, I even understand things, but getting that to translate into action . . . harder and harder.
Makes sense, and don’t take this as a challenge. What are you thoughts on flicking the wrist. I can see how opening the wrist will cause what you describe because it introduces a lateral vector. What about a flick of the wrist in the same plane as the cast like some instructors recommend? If we are talking about different things then I’m OK with that. Here to learn…
Hey Maverick, your brain is a lot more malleable than you think, even at half a century. I have a habit of picking up new hobbies all the time and I think it helps keep my brain (and myself) young. Whenever you practice, have a goal in mind to work on and only work on that goal. In this case keeping the line in your hand. It’s easier than you think, especially if you keep a positive attitude towards it. Also, by keeping the flyline in your hand, you can “snub” the fly line to control where the fly lands by shortening the cast. I like to cast a little harder than what the distance calls for and adjust the cast mid flight.
Buy me a Winston or T&T I’ll consent to be your son.
I’ve been casting for over 60 years and somewhere along the journey I just pick the spot I want my fly to go to and it just happens (most of the time).
On long shots my line hand winds up 4 or 5 inches just below/right of my rod hands elbow to feed the first guide.
Some people refer to flicking the wrist as the “power snap” at the end of a casting stroke.
One good way I remember this is to think of trying to launch a potato from the end of a stick. I forgot who coined that, I thought it was Lefty but I could be wrong.
The snap is easier on the foward cast than the backcast. Try launching that potato off a stick like a backcast. It takes some practice for that abrupt stop and snap. On the backcast, I like to emphasize contracting the bicep muscle like the top of a dumbbell curl - that adds an abrupt stop that helps creates the power snap.
@MaverickMA - I hear you man, we are around the same age. I learned fly casting on my own and built lots of bad habits fishing rivers in Colorado and sinking head lines on lakes around Austin. I had to completely relearn my cast for the salt to get it where I wanted to be. That took swallowing my pride, but it was worth it. But since then I’ve fished with a fantastic guide who taught me things that made my cast so much easier and effective. I’d say my cast is different now than what I learned originally for salt water. Less effort, more effective and better results.
Most of what I’ve shared is also in a saltwater presentation I’ve done here locally and during casting instruction. If a few people take something from it, it’s worth passing along so others can consider what really worked for me. I read several books on it and honestly some were not worth the money. However, Joan Wulff’s teachings are the best out there IMO. It just clicked for me the way she explained the cast and power stroke.
Ooooo, I like that. I agree the snap is easier on the forward. Lately I’ve been working on the snap on the back cast and when I do it right it definitely helps and leads to a much better forward cast, but I haven’t figured out how to do it consistently without much thought. I’ll try that bicep trick next practice session!
Think about it a bit and I suspect you will realize that you’re not making any kind of “snap” on the backcast. You are making a decelerating stop or deceleration that lets the line escape the rod tip and go where you threw it. You are letting go of the ball and like throwing a ball you can’t do anything good to the line after the loop is past the rod tip. All you can do is mess up the nice loop you started to throw. That works the same on your forward cast.
If you start with the line straight in front, pull it straight to the rear and the line lands straight onto where you meant it to go — you did it. Forward cast is the mirror image.
Try practicing with a helper who straightens the line behind you for every cast. When you pull the straight line straight off the grass or water behind you, you will be surprised how good the forward cast is.
@Hank couple of points here. Any stop is going to be a decelerating stop. Unless your hand hits a brick wall or some other hard, unyielding surface, it cannot possibly stop instantaneously. It’s going to be a very rapid deceleration (technically according to physics hitting a brick wall would be a deceleration as well, since your hand would deform in the direction of travel while it stopped, and the brick wall would compress/move a very tiny, but measurable amount before your hand and rod came to a complete stop…) to be able to create a good loop in the fly line. As far as the snap, I most definitely snap at times with my wrist. I don’t cast with my thumb on top (I injured my thumbs in skiing crashes when I was in college and they cannot push against a fly rod with any authority unless it’s a 3 weight or similar), I cast with a side motion of my wrist such as in swinging a racquet. I do this both ways obviously and I vary the snap depending on what I want to do with the loop and the cast. You can also do something similar with the thumb on top but not to the degree you can with a racquet snap type of motion as that is not as flexible a motion with the wrist, but it can be done.
I am glad you have figured out how to cast well given your hand problems.
Think about how you are throwing the line. Think about the potato on a stick and that you are throwing the potato. That is your line. Try thinking about feeling that motion.
A lot of discussing casting is understanding how others understand your words or how you underStand theirs. Slight differences in word choice can skew understanding. Sometimes it takes a change in words to get the ideas communicated.
