Ya. We want a smooth application of power. The less power we apply, the easier it is to apply smoothly. The more power we apply the harder it is to apply smoothly. Watching those casting competitions, it’s easy to see that they are applying a bunch of power on that final delivery. It’s important to keep in mind that those guys are also managing to be smooth in the process. But I totally agree with you, as we get better, we’ll be able to apply more power on delivery while maintaining that smooth acceleration that we need. If you want to get better you kinda have to push the envelope a little bit.
What gets me is in that video of Arden and Rajeff, Rajeff has such a short stroke compared to Arden. I think Paul Arden’s style is going to be easier to apply power smoothly because of the longer stroke. (so the acceleration is a little more drawn out). I think the advantage of Steve Rajeff’s style is that tracking would be easier with a short stroke like that.
They are throwing the same line, obviously, but I suspect Paul is using a softer rod, which needs a longer stroke to develop line speed. Much of the motion is taken up in bending the rod, and you don’t get all of that back in line speed. The factor you identify about a longer stroke allowing a more gradual acceleration is real, as is the better tracking of a short stroke. Cast a stiff rod with a long stroke and you end up with a huge loop that goes nowhere. In addition, most of us aren’t strong enough to cast like Steve. So many tradeoffs.
Interesting. I wouldn’t have thought of that. Do you know of any other casters with a similar style to his? I could see a person with a limited range of motion through the upper body might like a style like that.
Interesting conversation. I like the Arden stroke and like @KeithS mentioned which I only now realized it’s more forgiving to apply that power. When I first started I was working with a short stroke not because I wanted to be like Steve but because I didn’t know any better. Once I started lengthening my stroke and slowing it down I started to get better with distance. By distance I’m talking 50-70ft I stopped trying to cast the line a long time ago…
@rovster
Now work on placing the fly at 10’ intervals from 20-60’ into a 16 inch circle both with forward and backhand delivery. Once achieved, you’re golden👍. Don’t forget about roll casts😎
Strokes at distance competitions seem to have gotten longer, particularly for 5 wt, which is called Trout Distance. Henry (in black shorts and white shirt) casts at 17:36 in this video of the World Flycasting Championships 2024 https://youtu.be/0__8K90mzSg His stroke is 10 - 2 more or less. He placed 3rd out of 30 casters in this event.
Compare this to the US tournament from 2006 https://youtu.be/mFGZYy7h0FY Henry is the first caster. Strokes are much shorter. The lines are heavy ~50’ sinking heads. Carry is just a few feet longer than the head. These heavy heads will shoot over 150’. No need for a long stroke, because these heads straighten on the backcast fairly easily.
The big difference with 5 wt is that carry needs to be 90’ or more to be competitive, because this light line won’t shoot very far. This much light line is hard to keep straight during the backcast, so a long stroke at the beginning of the forward cast helps to take out the slack.
Even if you don’t care about throwing this long, learning the principles can make you a better caster.
Challenge accepted. 60’ I should be good. 20’ though is a real challenge..for me anyhow..lol.. what’s frustrating though, is I can cast at rays all day and never miss. Ole Redfish comes along and mid cast the breeze goes from zero to Mach 3 or any other of the 100 things that go wrong when you’re solo..
I don’t mess with the circles, but what I did to build my cast was go to a local football field at a school.
There are lines that can be used to mark distance obviously, but the sidelines can be used to measure how straight the line is.
I would take three shoes and put them at my desired distance. 30, 45, 60 length. I would hit each one with accuracy (within a foot of the shoe), then I would step back how ever many feet I wanted to build my cast. 10’ back was then 40, 55 and 70’ and so on.
It made practicing my backcast much more effective thanks to the sideline to measure straightness.
If there was a wind, I could practice with it to my back, at my side, or into it.
I would pretend a fish was moving and practice putting the fly 3’ to the side each time. If it was tailing, I would put the fly in the shoe.
I got this tip from Rick Hartman - he told me he practiced at an inside basketball court where he could easily measure distance and there wasn’t any elements affecting his cast. He’d do this repeatedly to build his cast early on when he was getting into competitions.
A shoe looks more like a fish than a ring does. I like it. Hitting a specific spot away from the target is a subtle but important skill to practice to better simulate fishing. After practicing hitting targets in the middle, I hit on the nose or lined way too many bonefish, with predictable results.
Absolutely, ground lines help especially when allowing the line to fall on your bc. I’m fortunate enough to have the ability/property to make my own lines. Target/accuracy practice made me a much better caster because it made obvious my errors. Matters not what you throw at, “aim small miss small” is a 1000 yard BR saying, it applies!
Knowing what causes line errors allowed me to make the adjustments necessary to correct. After a while I learned to deliberately make errors which lead to greater line control. Throwing flies for decades on LI always into a stiff wind taught me how to use shooting heads. The only thing you needed to do with a fly was reach the fish from the surf or rocks. It wasn’t until I moved down here did accuracy become important. As I said, the wind is always blowing so developing a back hand delivery is as important as a front hand delivery. Working with Paul Arden on my casting/170 has brought much awareness to me regarding line control more importantly power application, how much and when to apply. My casting is so much more efficient, expending much less energy with better results.
Couple things I’ve learned over the years which apply to all areas of life;
bad habits are hard to break
You play like you practice so practice perfectly
JMHO
I consider myself a pretty good caster, but not as good as I’d like. I can read about or watch video on casting but I need some one one time with an instructor to refine my technique. Any recommendations for casting instructors in the SE FL area?
Getting a lesson with someone who knows salt water casting is well worth the money. But it takes time for the muscle memory to burn in. Using a fully rigged rod and making time can sometimes not happen due to priorities getting in the way.
Check out this thread if you haven’t:
Grab one of these and practice around the house. It’s the fastest and best way IMO to burn in the muscles and learn the true basics of a cast. And it REALLY helps to learn what is wrong with a cast and how to fix it.
If someone cannot lay a 15’ piece of yarn straight on the forward cast and backcast inside a house, they won’t be able to hit a fish at 50’ in a 10 knot wind.
I’ve messed around with those before but never thought of them as a tool, I’ll pick one up at work. I’m going to have my brother film me from a distance, I know that will help as well. Always room for refinement.
This is all fantastic advice. I also use a football field and the lines make it very easy. I never understood why I cast with accuracy in the field but tend to lose that consistency on the bow until I realized my footing is different on a casting platform. On the platform, my feet are more stationary so I made sure to stand fairly still in the field to practice. This realization help my practice casts be more realistic and overall improved my accuracy on the bow.
Find straight angles inside the house - a rug, a wall, and lay down the line straight against those angles with forward and back casts. Start with 10’ first, get it dialed in, then let out another two feet, dial it in, then another few feet. 15’ is about the max needed. You can lay down a target and practice accuracy, and also casting plane to keep the line straight through forward and backcast.
