Well, this is definitely gonna be a journey, and for the rest of you, it’s likely gonna be entertaining and full of drama . . .
I’m a basically handy guy - meaning that I can do the most basic stuff, but I’m nowhere close to a shade tree mechanic. About all I have going for me is that my dad taught me how to work on stuff and in that process helped me to realize that, with enough time, money, patience, and determination - and YouTube - I can fix most things and save a little money.
So, for those who saw the 'all kinds of gremlins" thread - I’m breaking the hydraulic steering issue out into its own thread. Until recently, I knew nothing about how the system worked and didn’t really want to. A few dozen YouTube videos later, I’ve decided to figure this out and fix it on my own - hopefully I can help a few folks out there who share my ignorance of how the system works in the meantime.
So, this may take awhile, but the first step is diagnosis. Here’s the issue:
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System turns starboard fine - very smooth, no issues
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However, when turning to port AFTER turning starboard, there is initial resistance, and then the system suddenly releases and it turns fine to port - it’s very sudden - kind of “pops” and then works normally.
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The situation described in #2 has been going on for a year or two, but last trip, the resistance in turning to port was extreme - I actually didn’t think I’d be able to turn the motor at all but with sufficient pressure, I was able to get it back over to port - the issue disappeared for awhile during the trip, but came back a few times.
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I had the rear piston rebuilt a few years ago and I have no leakage anywhere in the system. The reservoir is full.
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Don’t waste time trying to rebuild the helm…there is a place over in Sarasota that sells rebuilt ones or just go one line or head to West Marine and buy a new one…while I’ve heard it’s not difficult…why take the chance of not installing all the parts properly.
For the time and effort and frustration, and potential danger of rebuilding it incorrectly and then having a major problem at 30 mph and you go to turn and it freezes or something worse and you go the kids in the boat…just my $0.02
And, if you really screw it up…take to a marine mechanic.
It’s basically really simple…you undo the lines from the helm…BE SURE TO MARK WHICH IS WHICH…I did it one time and crossed them…left was right and right was left…no fun.
Then, all you do is take of the helm…
Get a bunch of tubing from home. depot and then begin the re-bleeding process.
Go to my thread on the Holy Ghost and I outlined how to do it…not difficult, just takes a few hours…
There are several Youtube threads…
DC
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So - part 1: Diagnosis
The issue could potentially be in four basic locations:
- The engine steering tube itself - unlikely, but it is possible that the hydraulic steering is NOT the issue and that the engine itself is binding due to corrosion
- The helm pump - currently this is my primary suspect - and a 750 replacement if I can’t rebuild
- The steering cylinder - I had ruled this out previously because it was rebuilt a few years ago - however, I just learned that there is a seal in the center of the steering cylinder that I doubt was replaced and would definitely cause the symptoms I’m experiencing.
- The lines - it is possible that there is air in the lines or that the steering fluid is bad.
The plan is to start very basic:
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flush the old steering fluid and add some conditioner, bleed the system. There MAY be simply too much air in the line or the fluid (very old) may be the issue. I’ll start there, and hope it’s that simple. I’ve never done this . .. so it will be fun. Found this video on YouTube which covers the really basic basics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77HpQ97W-ow
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If flushing the system doesn’t work, I’ll disconnect the engine and test to see if it moves freely. From there, I’ll work up the line. This video should help me disconnect the engine from the cylinder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGlVMUori3o
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With the engine disconnected, I may be able to feel whether or not the issue is in the cylinder vs. the helm. again - if the issue is the cylinder, the video above should help. this looks like the kit I’ll need to pull it all apart - it comes witht he puller I’ll need on that engine steering bracket, so that’s a good thing. Amazon.com: HC5345 Seal Kit Fit for Seastar Front Mount Hydraulic Steering Cylinder Seal Kit #HS5157 & Steering Support Bracket Puller : Automotive
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If the cylinder isn’t the issue, it will be tie to rebuild the helm pump. these videos were really helpful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9BSJPTSJdI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEczRtLd3mI
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@anon49879493 - I think I want to take a crack at it myself as a project w/ my son. However, as a back up plan - what’s the name of the place with the rebuilt pumps in Sarasota? I couldn’t find any rebuilds on line.
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Very helpful!! Thank you for taking time to do this. Once you finish up, we’ll make sure it get’s “pinned”.
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If you disconnect the motor first, can you isolate the trouble as being motor or cylinder?
Just thinking out loud and trying to save a step or 2 in the process of elimination.
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That’s kind of the plan - though I plan to flush/bleed the system first - if its just excess air trapped in the system, it’s the cheapest fix!
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YES, you can do the “bleed the lines” to get rid of air…but, from my experience of about 4 boats with Sea Stars…if you are hearing “popping” it’s usually time for the rebuild or a new one.
If you just had “loose” steering, normally a bleed out is all you need to remove the air…Popping means some of the valves are broken or worn out and moving…
Post up your adventure…
DC
Grab you’re outboard by hand and try and force it side to side. If you have more the 1/2” or so of play, then you have air in the lines. That’ll give you a good start.
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How old is the system?
When was the last flush and replace of fluid? When the piston was rebuilt?
After you clear the resistance going to all the way to port lock, do you get resistance as you turn the wheel to the starboard lock?
I’ve installed these myself so have some experience with them.
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Thanks @coconutgroves - I don’t know how old the system is, but assume it is original with the boat (2000). I have owned the boat since 2017 - engine has about 650 hrs on it.
The steering cylinder seals were replaced around 2022 . . .I think - it’s the one invoice I can’t find.
I have not changed the fluid since then.
Yes, after I clear the resistance, it is very smooth all the way to the port lock.
I would think the fluid would have been replaced when the seals were replaced.
If it was the tube, I would think you would feel resistance both ways, not just one way.
Flush the fluid that is there and move the engine back and forth to see if there is any resistance. If moves freely, it’s the fluid and air.
Get a spare hand to help fill with fluid - makes it easier to get all the air out.
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Remove the fluid first, then move the engine back and forth to see if the tube is smooth or not.
As for removing the fluid, I used a kit I have for lower units. But that one you showed me looks good. Double check the SeaStar manual on how to do it. Youtube is great, but double check the core instructions as well. The lock to lock movement when filling is key to get the air out.
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The system Zika mentioned the other day to bleed the system is the best way I’ve seen.
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@Smackdaddy53 do you remember the thread?
@Zika , do you know what thread you posted that link in?
I forgot I saved it in my skiff notes
Some of you may already know of this ingenious method, but when I had to replace my hydraulic steering pump, the Uflex tech gave me these steps to manually bleed air out of the system. I bought the vinyl tubing and T-barb at Lowes for about $12. With Uflex and SeaStar hydraulic fluid selling for $27-28 a quart, this minimizes waste and most importantly the mess. For my bleed valves I used 5/16 ID for the hose and 1/4 T-Barb. The tech recommended temporarily using zip ties to hold the tubing in place with the pressure. I also added some on each connection on the barb. Quick process, worked great and you can see the air bubbles moving through the clear tubing.
Manual bleeding is best done with clear hose(s) and barbed t-fitting(s). This way you can see the bubbles and fluid recirculating to the helm without catch pans and/or losing precious fluid.
Procedure-
- Hook a two foot piece of clear tubing to each bleeder valve on the cylinder and connect them together with the barbed t-fitting.
- Then attach a clear tube to the t-fitting long enough to reach the helm fill port. This hose will be put into the helm fill port.
- Move the motor over to one side and crack open the bleeder on the side with the cylinder rod sticking out the farthest. (not the side up against the bullhorn)
*Note: hold the motor over, as it will want to move as you turn the wheel.
- Turn the wheel in the direction to make the fluid come out that bleeder only. Fluid and air will travel up the clear tubing to the helm.
*Note: before it reaches the helm, stop and top off the helm.
5) Stick the hose into the fill port and continue turning until the fluid is solid with no air bubbles coming out of the bleeder valve.
- Close that bleeder valve and continue turning the wheel in the same direction, this will move the cylinder to the other side.
- Repeat the process for the other side.
Once you have done both sides, steer the motor to the center. 8) At this point you will need to check the system by shaking the motor side to side, if the cylinder on the shaft moves ¼ inch or less, you are done. If the cylinder moves more than ¼ inch, there is still air in the system. Rebleed the system and recheck.
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