In short, the fly will go where the thumb is pointing. And the thumb is always on top of the grip on the rod pointed in the direction of the rod.
The casting plane can be overhead, 45 degrees, 90 degrees, and even over the non-dominant shoulder. As long as the forward cast and back cast follow the same plane, the cast can be made at any angle.
Pairing those two things together allows casts to land straight at any casting angle. Just keep the plane straight and the thumb following the same plane and pointed where you want it to go. Don’t twist the wrist or change planes mid motion.
But if you want it to curve, twist the wrist mid motion and point the thumb where you want it to curve.
I use the above to correct my cast when it is getting lazy - I am either not following the plane, not pointing my thumb good enough, or lazy on my hauls.
Rather than casting the fly with a back cast a couple years ago I started using my normal forward cast with the rod angled slightly so the rod tip passes over my head and the fly passes just to the left of my head (right hand caster). It was a little awkward at first but after I got this cast dialed in I found I was comfortable casting 70’ plus with great accuracy. It also allows you to keep your eye on the target during the entire cast. Thank you Joe Mahler for showing me this technique years ago, it was a game changer.
I look at fly casting a lot like shooting a bow or swinging a golf club. The more technical you get the more likely you will deviate from what works for you and try to fit into a cookie cutter generalized mold of what others think you should be doing. While the technical aspects generally work out kinks in your cast I think you can lose your natural stroke and actually ruin your cast by overthinking. I watch my ten year old cast and he is actually a better overall fly caster than a lot of guys I’ve fished with who have been fly casting longer than he has been alive. I taught him the basics and I don’t nitpick him and try to change what he does because he’s actually making good casts and catching fish. I’ve actually learned more by poling the skiff and observing him than I have from all these uber technical casting videos and long winded explanations.
Yesterday a guide on Instagram was trying to convince everyone that hauling during a cast does nothing because it does not add additional load to the rod and about 80% of the comments were praising him and agreeing with him and 20% were saying he is full of it and he actually tried to invite people to debate him about it. There is nothing wrong with discussion and having disagreements but when people are 100% wrong and trying to pretend they are right they need to be called out. It is the same with what I do when I’m modifying and rigging skiffs to optimize speed, shallow water performance and overall efficiency…lots of guys want to argue with math, hydrodynamics and physics just because they have a bunch of social media/ internet myths downloaded in their brains. I always laugh at “three blade props are for speed and four blades are for hole shot”, “lower units are water cooled”, “my non tunnel will run as shallow as a tunnel” and all those lies people have regurgitated for so long they have people believing them.
I’ve also found this has a lot to do with it. I throw curves on the back cast if I don’t really think about turning my wrist over to get my thumb upside down pointing at the target. On a forward cast you pretty consistently will get your thumb on top b/c it feels natural. On the back cast I have a tendency to finish more with my palm up and thumb on the side and that throws curves. I think you’ll find if you try to turn your hand over as much as you physically can you’ll see a difference.
Quick tip to try - flex your bicep on the back cast - that stops the arm movement arbruptly and locks in the wrist. I also mentally focus on pointing my thumb directly directly at the tip of the rod. After doing this for a while, it gets engrained and doesn’t have to be so front of mind.
I’ve posted this before, just can’t remember if it was on this site or the old corporate site. I have bursitis in my casting shoulder, and because of that I cast with my elbow tucked down to my side. I’ve found that I can cast further and better accuracy, both with less pain. I don’t understand the mechanics of “why”, I just know it works for me.
I like the off-shoulder cast also. It is easier to be accurate than with a backcast delivery, at least for me. With a cross wind, it doesn’t take much tilt of the rod over your head to keep the line on the opposite side.
With arthritis creeping in, I have mostly converted to the V grip. It is less painful than thumb-on-top, particularly for heavy rods. This makes the thumb less obvious to track, though the principle is the same. A very visible indicator of wrist tracking is the reel. A lot of casters start with the reel under the rod, then it flops out to the side during the backcast. This commonly contributes to a hook at the end of the backcast. If the rod has a significant spine, you can get tip tracking errors even without the hook. Even without a spine, the line pulls off to one side as the tip is rotated. Keeping the reel (or the thumb) in the plane of rod motion avoids this.
I hesitate to admit this, but I cast with my index finger on top. I wasn’t even aware of this until a guide noticed it. He said there’s nothing wrong with it, and pointed out some guides actually teach it. Much like letting the thumb point to the target, he said it was a way to let the index finger point to the target.
There are lots of grips that work. I have never been able to do finger-on-top except for light rods. Something about that index finger knuckle that doesn’t like it. It does provide a good pointer, though.
Glen Ozawa has a pretty thorough discussion of grips and comes up with a new “key” grip. Grip... Part 1: Defining An “Efficient” Grip — CV Optometry Unfortunately, he falls into the trap of claiming one to be the best. Nonetheless, it is worth reading his reasoning.
I can’t use thumb on top for either hand, as I injured both thumbs in separate skiing crashes when I was young, and using the thumb on top is very painful for me. I had to change my grip to a racquet grip, where I use what’s called an Eastern grip, with my hand turned 90 degrees counterclockwise so the knuckle of my index finger is on top.
Swallowing some “special technique” accounts for lots of casting misery. Casting is largely intuitive — as smack describes in his son’s casting. The closer you approach the physics of casting, the better the result. Ignoring those laws causes trouble.
Absent some prior physical injury of limitation, casting should not cause hurt or even discomfort. So for most, if it hurts, you are doing it wrong. Ultimately it boils down to moving the line with the rod to accomplish the task of delivering and fishing the fly. Whether you hold your pinky out while casting is not part of successful casting.
That’s the whole idea behind how Lefty (and Ed Jaworowski) teach for casting. They don’t adhere to old 17th century trout casting techniques. They teach 4 basic principles, IIRC, using the whole body, the line goes where the tip goes etc. Lefty said that when you throw a ball, you use only arm if it’s a short toss, but engage more and more of your arm and body, and extend the range of motion of your arm as you cast further. I don’t think anyone here is espousing some special technique, but rather body mechanics that you see any most any sport involving throwing or hitting.
But I do NOT think it’s “largely intuitive.” I’ve handed long time fisherman a fly rod who insisted it’s easy and they cannot intuit how to cast. The hardest part is using a linear rod path and “hard” stop at the end of back and forward cast, this is more a “throwing paint from a paint brush,” than a baseball throwing motion.
I’m not saying that anybody here is bad or wrong. Talking about casting and then maybe having an epiphany from something that someone else says is really valuable. In fact, one mark of an excellent instructor is that they may be able to tell you multiple different ways, using different words or different visualizations and then demonstrate them to you. Everyone does not use the same words or think or learn the same. After talking, then you need to try to apply that new idea or that new way of saying/thinking it.
I am saying to think about what you’re doing when you’re casting. There is a rote method that starts with how you’re standing and how you’re gripping the rod, and slack, etc. Applying the rote method allows a solid foundation to how you’re gonna feel the cast. And I maintain that a good bit of casting is intuitive in the same way as throwing a ball. Throwing a ball with a different grip every time, or standing a different way every time — it’s gonna make it hard to learn how to throw the ball well. Same with casting. Ultimately, you’re gonna learn to move in a way that works and complies with physics.