Let’s talk transom heights while we’re at it…
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Can we also discuss builder’s who epoxy bilge pumps to the hull instead of adding a small pad to mount them to? I mean, a bilge pump is for emergency purposes not to suck every drop of water from the bilge.
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Hope everyone’s recovery days are going well.
Yes I totally agree that the internet, Cad technology, and sites like this one here have changed the game.
I will add to our discussion here…
look at the photos I just shared we all can see a fully rigged Whipray skiff floating in a pond at a boat show for all to see first hand what she floated in. I built that pond 4 times starting at our first show in Houston 1998. That’s fresh water so the skiff would float even lower than if in salt water. That’s the beginnings of my transparency and truth in advertising. We went on to hoisting a Whipray at shows with a scale to show its true weight. At the time Hells Bays competitors were the Maverick Marage because its hull did not make noise. We changed the flats skiff world and made shallow draft its current obsession.
I do have a current stake in the flats skiff business but in a different capacity than you. I have designed for 21 companies their skiffs which at present 13 companies are building and selling. I and Nathan Shawl have a busy home builders plans business going on daily dealing with builders all over the world. All these companies designs specifications can be seen by everyone. I make it a point for everyone to know exactly what my designs pros and cons are in draft up front. I turn potential clients away all the time showing it just won’t float in the water they want to get into.
Yes for sure I share all my “inside” information freely to the world. Without clients we would not have skiffs to build. I have nothing to hide. I can see many new builders using my past details and open information in their new visions. I believe in “open sourcing” knowledge to help the possible advancement of this sport.
I am not afraid of competition. I too have a family. My girls were 3-1/2 and 8 years old when we started HBBWs. They are 35 and 31 years old now and I have my 2 grandkids living down the road now at 5& 6
The issue that I see in the flats skiff builders world is that the buying market, that’s all of you out there would so much more benefit if you all knew the stats of each skiff.
In the other real world, all sports figures from day one have a stats sheet following them till they die. All competitive racing sail boats are measured to exactness to get a rating to be able to race and win
fairly. All car manufacturers show all the cars numbers. With out knowing true displacement numbers it’s like saying “ yea this new electric engines battery can last like…a real long time, longer than everyone’s, it’s really long because it’s got really cool space age alien technology in it”.
Just think if HBBW, Chittum, Drake, EastCape and all the other skiff companies shared their skiffs stats openly we could all have playing cards to trade of our favorite teams/ builders skiffs.
Ha ! A new business awaiting, skiff trading cards…
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Chris,
It seems you have a pressing agenda. My very first reply to this forum wasn’t even to you. Good to see you admit you are being compensated. You keep doing you and I’ll do me…
I came here as many told me about this forum. I was looking forward to being a part of this. I will gracefully bow out. I’ve never seen an internet squabble end well for either individual. Just know car companies don’t share design elements and GOOGLE, APPLE, Microsoft don’t share code either.
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I take @Chris_Morejohn comments in the manner in which they are intended. He is simply pointing out that a bonefish cannot swim in 3.5”. Take that any way you want. I know how I take it. I know I can’t pole my Waterman in 3.5”.
Anyway, it’s always fun to read these threads and hope it continues without hurt feelings. M
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I think it is fair to be challenged when claiming 2.5” draft on a skiff and 4” draft when loaded. Unless there are new physics and materials that have been discovered, nobody has achieved that to date.
Please come back and show it off when it’s ready. I am all for progression in building. Science progresses because peers challenge one another to make sure the results are correct and factual. Until it can be verified, it’s just theory and can be seen as marketing speak. And when the skiff hits, the measurements and weight can be obtained by anyone.
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??? Regarding the blue tunnel EC Zuke- the trim tabs appear to be pretty negative/below hull bottom at full up in the pic- is this the case or?
I gotta admit, this thread lasted a lot longer than I thought it would before feelings started getting hurt. Two men poling a loaded skiff floating in 3.5” 
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Never let the truth get in the way of a good story
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Oh heck yes, ditto!
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Just thinking out loud…
Why would the owner of a reputable boat company—a guy whose entire reputation is built on every hull he delivers—post a claim that isn’t true? There’s zero benefit and massive risk if it’s not. Yet a lot of us (myself included sometimes) are quick to doubt or pile on the second something sounds bold.
I came here hoping for good conversation, shared knowledge, and fresh ideas. What I keep seeing instead are threads getting hijacked, inside jokes, and a weird double standard: some people can post anything and get high-fives, while others say the same thing and it turns into open season.
If someone asks about coffee, three pages later we’re arguing about whiskey. If someone shares a number or an opinion that doesn’t match the groupthink, the thread turns into a roast. Same vibe that killed the old site—just without the banner ads.
I’ve been fishing and around skiffs almost my entire 50 years of life. I don’t get my feelings hurt and I don’t need internet likes, but the petty stuff wears thin. If another guy’s rig, technique, or numbers aren’t your cup of tea, that’s fine—keep scrolling. You don’t have to comment on every single thing you disagree with.
This place was built to bring the community together and share what we’ve learned on the water. Let’s not let it turn into the same echo chamber we all left.
That’s all.
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I’ve been working on a skiff that is poleable in 2 inches of water. It involves a large balloon and a lot of helium.
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Yes! 
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Physics, very basic physics at that…In order for something to float in say 10” of water, the total weight of said object must not weigh more than the volume of water it is displacing.
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I agree with the tone of your post and I believe the general concensus of 99% of our SkiffHQ members is the same. This Forum has brought over almost all the knowledgeable members with ‘True Grit’ from the other site, and none of the ‘easily-offended’ members whose claims must never be questioned or corrected.
Nevertheless, any member of this shallow-water skiff forum, especially a business entity, promoting their product or boat design should know that the seasoned experts here know their ■■■■ and will not be easily convinced to trust claims that don’t match-up with the physics or mathematics involved.
In other words, if you’re going to make the claim that your skiff floats in less than 4.5" of saltwater with two average-size adults, motor, and loaded to fish - get some painters tape, a sharpie pen, and a third guy with a camera and take pictures in knee-deep water with the motor tilted up out of the water - showing the waterline on the marked tape. Then sit back and bask in the glory - without any claims of sales/marketing speak!
IMHO, @Chris_Morejohn has a solid reputation in transparency, verification, comparison, and the math, when proving his point - on his own designs and others’.
Edit: Here’s an idea for the skiff builder… When you place your ‘Brand’ decal on the skiff - also add a clear/see-through measurement decal on the transom printed in 1/2” increments, as standard. That would say a lot…
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You’ll get no argument from me on what you said—I get it. It’s good to be skeptical. I don’t believe half the 
I see, especially online. But with that said, people could respond without sounding like a complete ■■■■. And when I say that, I mean it for all posts, not just this topic.
As far as math and physics go, they only work if you’re working with the right numbers. So I’m genuinely curious where they’re getting the numbers they’re plugging into these equations. I’m not a boat builder or a mathematician (not even close), but I have been around the block. And I’ve learned to stay away from two words: “always” and “never.” Those two have bitten me in the ass more times than I can count.
Lastly, I have no dog in this fight other than the fact that I own an East Cape and have owned them since 2006. Yes, I consider Kevin a good friend, but being a friend—or family, for that matter—doesn’t give anyone a free pass from critique, good or bad. If I thought he was talking , I’d call him out without hesitation.
With that said, I could’ve bought any skiff I wanted. I looked at plenty. At the end of the day, I went with East Cape because the EVO checked every box for me and, in my opinion, performs better than most skiffs on the market. No math needed. It either does what I need it to do or it doesn’t.
I’m not looking for a kumbaya moment here—just a little civility.
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We’re essentially on the same page here. And I really like the design of the 17 EVO (‘v’ and ‘x’) and the upcoming 21 EVO as well. This is a great forum, and hopefully not one to bow-out from. It’s better to stay engaged - politely of course.
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Sometimes products are marketed really well and salesman are sly enough to sell ice to Eskimo’s !!!
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